See inside Paul's studio with virtual reality

As part of the promotion of Paul's new album to be released in June, he has partnered with Jaunt Studios to create two 360 degree videos of him in his private studios.  The links below will take you to the two videos.  If you have a smart phone or tablet, you will be able to rotate the device to look up down and all around his studio at will.

BBFC on the radio discussing Beatles for Sale

Our own Ernie Sutton, BBFC Treasurer, was on the radio yesterday discussing the 50th anniversary of the release of the Beatles for Sale album.

If you missed it, you can listen to the podcast below. It is well worth a listen as Ernie did us proud.

Memories of Love Me Do!

BBFC Members, John and Rose recently got in touch with us to share their memories of 1962.  It's always fabulous to hear the stories from the people who were there!  Thanks, John and Rose, for allowing us to share your memories on the website!

"We were members of the Cavern Club in 1962 and always went when the Beatles were on (3/6 to get in). They told us that they were going to make a record called Love Me Do, and asked us all to buy it. I ordered it from a market record stall and as the market was on a Thursday they got it for me the day before it was officially released being the Friday, so I have always hoped that I had the very first record of the Beatles to be sold. I will never part with it of course.

Not John and Rose's original, but the anniversary
edition of Love Me Do issued by EMI in 2012

We will never forget the magical Cavern and the wonderful groups who appeared, the Beatles were always the most popular. The girls who sat on the chairs in front of the stage uses to go wild. We used to sit in an alcove on the right of the stage. I remember that the sweat used to pour down John's face when he belted out "Twist and Shout".

We used to have a Coke with them at the little bar at the back of the Club.

Good times gone forever but "We were there!"

John & Rose

More Memories of George

Here are some more of the great interviews that DIDN’T make our George special.  


The Harrison Exclusive tribute magazine will be available next week, but orders can be placed now via the BBFC Shop by clicking here.


We would like to thank those who gave their time to give us reminiscences of George.






David Jacobs, who was the host of the hit BBCTV music show ‘Juke Box Jury’, recalls the apprehension of The Beatles as they returned to Liverpool for the premiere:

"I travelled to Liverpool with The Beatles for the first night showing of ‘A Hard Day’s Night’ in their home city.

On the flight, George in particular was worried, as were the other Beatles, about returning to Liverpool. They thought their home city would reject them because of the fame they had achieved and leaving their original fans.

 As we flew into Liverpool Airport, George looked out through a window and said “Look at all that down there, it looks like black tar”.

In fact it was the heads of all the fans that had turned out to greet them on their return to their home city!

I sat with Brian Epstein in the car from the airport taking us to the city centre. To see the look on people’s faces that had just seen The Beatles, who were in the car ahead of us, was simply amazing."

(Our thanks to David Jacobs for granting the BBFC an interview in August 2010)
Leslie Cavendish, the Beatles hairdresser, recalls the occasion when he visited George in hospital when his tonsils were removed.

"I remember going to the hospital when he had his tonsils out in February 1969 at the London University Hospital. This was a few years after Ringo had his out.

I was asked by Derek Taylor to go and wash and cut George's hair because it was making him feel uncomfortable. When I got to the hospital the press were there waiting for news. As I walked in they approached me and asked I would tell them what George had said after I saw him.

I went upstairs to his room and told him that I had never seen so many press people before. He told me this was normal and he just gets on with it. I mentioned that they would like me to tell them what was happening or say something. As it wasn't my job to tell the press anything, when I left I told them (“no comment”) I've always wanted to do that. George had this very special peaceful aura around him and the times I had been in his company you felt it.

It was SOMETHING in the way he smiled."

(The BBFC would like to thank Leslie Cavendish for granting an interview August 2010)
Victor Spinetti shared this special memory with the BBFC:

"I was spending the day with George at his bungalow in Esher.

Whilst sipping some green tea he said,” Come, I’ve just bought something and I’d like you to see it.”

He led me into another room which was all white-a white fitted carpet, white walls and floor to ceiling white muslin curtains gently rippling in the breeze from an open window over which they were drawn.

George was also in white-a loose fitting Indian type garment, comprising of an open shirt and loose fitting trousers.

On the floor of this room was a beautiful ivory studded musical instrument, this was he explained to me a thousand year old sitar.

Without warning he sat behind it and started playing. I too sat on the floor, cross legged as was George, I had previously taken off my shoes, and George was already in bare feet.

As he played, the white curtains rippling behind him, the music in the all white room seemed as though the two of us had been transported to some far off spiritual retreat.

I had been telling George earlier that I couldn’t get it together with Indian music.

“You don’t listen to it Vic, you just let it happen to you”, he said.

So there I was ,letting this whole experience of George, the thousand year old sitar, the amazing music , the all white room ,happen.

He finished playing as suddenly as he begun. We were both quite as the music faded into the stillness of the room.

I reached out and impulsively touched his foot.

“How did you know?” he asked

“Know what?” I replied.

“To touch my foot? This is the custom in India when a musician finishes playing”

I didn’t know of course I’m only glad I did the right thing ,it just seemed the gentle thing to do in order to thank him…to thank my teacher for this one amazing afternoon, To thank my own personal guru in teaching me the ways of Indian music, George Harrison."

(With thanks to Victor Spinetti, February 7, 2011)

In 1969 the Apple band Badfinger would have a huge hit with the Paul McCartney song ‘Come and Get It’, which was part of the soundtrack to Ringo Starr’s up and coming film ‘The Magic Christian’, also starring the former Goon, Peter Sellers.  Joey Molland, of Badfinger, recalls walking into Apple, just after the single became a hit.

“I remember walking into the Apple offices in London, just after ‘Come and Get it’ became a hit. As I walked in there was George Harrison. He turned and congratulated us on having a huge hit, and told me- “You do now realise you will be playing this for the rest of your life, don’t you?.” How right he was.”

(Thanks to Joey Molland- Liverpool August 2010)

Harrison Exclusive Tribute

The BBFC has produced an exclusive 80-page A4 size full-colour magazine, HARRISON EXCLUSIVE, a tribute magazine with a difference.

Packed with features by top quality writers, including some of those who knew George personally, HARRISON EXCLUSIVE covers George's life and career, from his childhood through to his untimely passing in 2001.

Post and packing for this item: UK £2.50, Europe £3.50, ROW £5.00
Special offer for BBFC members in UK and Europe: £4.50 including postage and packing.

To order your copy, visit the BBFC Shop


However, there was so many people with fabulous memories of George that we couldn't fit all of them into the magazine.  Here, as a BBFC Website Exclusive, is a wonderful contribution from Spencer Leigh.

TALKING GEORGE HARRISON

By Spencer Leigh

Over the past 30 years I have been fortunate enough to interview music personalities for my BBC Radio Merseyside programme, On The Beat. Invariably, I seek out any Beatle connections and if there aren’t any, I ask for a favourite Beatles track. It sounds as though I do my interviews on autopilot but by asking for a favourite Beatles track, I find I receive all kinds of different answers and they are rarely the same. By way of a tribute to George, here are some comments from my guests about George Harrsion.

Session guitarist and former member of Wings, Laurence Juber told me, “When I worked with George Harrison, he told me that when he was 13, he had some jazz guitar lessons from someone on the boats who was familiar with Django Reinhardt. Those diminished chords that George uses came from Django, so he was a very sophisticated guitar player.”

Chris Curtis, drummer with the Searchers: “George was wonderful on the guitar. His little legs would kick out to the side when he did his own tunes. He’d go all posh and say, ‘I’d like to do a tune now from Carl Perkins, ‘Everybody’s Trying To Be My Baby’, and it’s in A.’ Who wanted to know what key it was in? But he always said that.”

Billy Kinsley of the Merseybeats: “The Beatles sang ‘A Shot Of Rhythm And Blues’ in unison and then broke into a little harmony with some backing vocals from George. ‘Some Other Guy’ was also in unison and it became a Liverpool thing to sing in unison. George had a monotone Scouse accent and he sang like that when doing harmonies, which was the perfect way to do it. You wanted that in there because John and Paul were so melodic. That was good luck – they thought, ‘Doesn’t it sound great?’ and did it.”

With The Beatles contained the first George Harrison song, the sulky and self-protective ‘Don’t Bother Me’. Bill Harry, the editor of the Mersey Beat newspaper, says, “When everyone was going on about the Lennon-McCartney partnership, I felt that the others should come to the fore in some creative way. I kept on at George Harrison by saying, ‘Look, the first original number the Beatles ever recorded was one of yours, ‘Cry for a Shadow’ in Hamburg, so why don’t you write some more?’ He would say, ‘I can’t be bothered.’ That led to him writing ‘Don’t Bother Me’ ’cause I was always on his back. When I met him after its release, he said, ‘Thanks very much. I’ve already made £7,000 in royalties.’”

In the US, George Harrison bought a 12-string guitar, which he used in A Hard Day’s Night. Roger McGuinn of the Byrds: “George Harrison was playing a Rickenbacker 12 string and he gave me the idea for getting one too. His method of playing lead was to play up and down the G string as he got more punch out of it. I emulated that style and it sounded really good.”

Rory Gallagher: “I liked the Beatles a lot, particularly the way they revived an interest in Carl Perkins and Buddy Holly. Most of the string bending came from Paul, and John was a very powerful rhythm player. George Harrison was an underrated slide player, very accurate and very good in the Carl Perkins vein. He worked within the song and he had unusual phrases and didn’t fit into the Eric Clapton/ Jeff Beck area. He could play great ethnic rock’n’roll and rockabilly guitar.”

Music writer Paul Du Noyer: “George Harrison came out of Liverpool, unlike the other guitar heroes of British rock who were nearly all Home Counties boys like Eric Clapton and Jimmy Page. They had been brought up on the blues but Liverpool was steeped in country music and so Chet Atkins was a bigger influence on George. You can hear that single note picking, rather than long, sustained blues notes, in his early work. It gave the Beatles a very different sound and once it was developed you get ‘Ticket To Ride’ and ‘Day Tripper’, which have very intricate guitar playing. George had taken what he had learnt and put it into a new dimension. The southern boys went for the blues and that developed into psychedelia and heavy rock.”

Neville Marten, lead guitarist with Marty Wilde’s Wildcats: “I was turned onto music by George Harrison. John and Paul were casual, easy-going musicians but George was very studious, always taking great care, and I thought, ‘That’s the guy I want to be’. It was said that the Stones could play and the Beatles could write songs but George Harrison played some lovely guitar on their records. The solo in ‘Something’ is a classic, a song within a song. ‘And I Love Her’ on the classical guitar is an absolute example of understanding an instrument as it relates to a song, which is what many guitarists fail to understand today.”

The Hollies recorded George’s song, ‘If I Needed Someone’ for a single: it scraped into the Top 20 but deserved to go higher. Allan Clarke: “The only Beatles number that the Hollies ever did was ‘If I Needed Someone’. It was written by George Harrison and we got slated for it. Even George said it was terrible and we didn’t like that ’cause it dented our egos. It was a lovely song that had the Hollies’ ingredients written all over it but somehow the public didn’t accept it. They accepted the Rolling Stones doing a Beatles song but not us.”

Graham Nash, also from the Hollies: “I was sad that George didn’t like it as we certainly didn’t want to upset him. We were honouring his songwriting and it was a great song and we did a good job of it. We did it a little too fast but the harmonies are pretty good.”

Barbara Dickson: “I recorded ‘If I Needed Someone’ in 2006 and I thought it was a very good song, very up-tempo and so not as fundamentally thoughtful as some of his songs. I sing it in concert in memory of George Harrison as he gets overlooked so much of the time. If he had been in another band, he could have been as big as Lennon or McCartney but he was overshadowed by them. He was such a sensitive soul and I love him for that.”

Ian McNabb, formerly of the Liverpool band, The Icicle Works: “George Harrison was into Chet Atkins and he was getting to be a really good guitarist around 1966. ‘Taxman’ can’t have sat too well with his Indian gurus as you’re not supposed to be bothered with worldly goods if you’re into Gita.”

Beatles historian, Mark Lewisohn: “I like ‘Taxman’ for several reasons. First and foremost, it’s George Harrison’s writing. He had been writing a few songs over the years and although they’re very pleasant, there’s nothing especially great about them. They hadn’t got the depth that Lennon and McCartney’s songs had but that changed with ‘Taxman’, which is a very clever composition and typically George Harrison because the stories of his fascination with money are legion. He always wanted to know what they were owed and what they were earning. The fact that they were paying a great deal in tax rankled George a lot more than it did Paul, John or Ringo, so he wrote this stinging song to show how bitterly he felt about it all and he rounded it off with some of the best playing on any Beatles record.”

Bill Nelson from Be Bop Deluxe: “I loved jazz guitar and I looked down a bit on the earlier Beatles stuff and then, when they did Rubber Soul and Revolver and became more experimental, they got my attention. Now I love the early stuff as well as I can see the value of it. I liked George Harrison as he was a big fan of Chet Atkins and he played a Gretsch Chet Atkins guitar which I lusted after when I only had cheap guitars. The productions were so inspiring. My all-time favourite is ‘Baby, You’re A Rich Man’. I just love the vibe of it.”

Actor Victor Spinetti: “I said to George Harrison, ‘I can’t get it together with Eastern music’, and he said, ‘Vic, don’t listen to it. Let it happen to you. Western music is all maths, but Eastern music is the flow and you can jump in and out whenever you want.’”

Mike Heron from the Incredible String Band: “I loved everything that George Harrison did. It’s very clever to write songs that are commercially acceptable and yet have spiritual messages. I’ve tried to do that but he was a master at it.”

EMI historian, Brian Southall: “‘Only A Northern Song’ was George’s dig at Northern Songs having his publishing. John and Paul as co-owners and directors and shareholders in Northern Songs earned almost as much as George Harrison did from his songs and that caused resentment. George felt he had been conned and it is true that he wasn’t given any independent advice. Seemingly, every lawyer and every accountant who advised the Beatles was retained by NEMS, which was Brian Epstein’s management company.”

Jackie Lomax from the Liverpool band the Undertakers recorded George’s song, ‘Sour Milk Sea’: “I was signed to Apple Publishing with a view to writing songs for other artists to record. George Harrison heard my stuff and wanted me to work with him. I had to wait for him to come back from India where they had been with the Maharishi. George had written ‘Sour Milk Sea’ out there about the ages of the world. They believe that every 26,000 years, the world changes. In between there is a just a sour milk sea where nothing happens. It was a heavy driving rock song at a time when everyone was doing ballads and we thought it would be a hit. Apple released four singles on the same day and mine got lost in the crush.”

When Jackie Lomax’s album was issued on CD in 1991, Billy Kinsley from the Merseybeats was on the bonus cuts. “‘Going Back To Liverpool’ was great because George Harrison produced it. George was a wonderful producer as he was very methodical and never looked at his watch: he just wanted everything to be precisely right. Paul could be like that too, but he also went for feel. If it sounded okay, that was fine. ‘Going Back To Liverpool’ is a wonderful track and I remember doing the backing vocals with George, Billy Preston and Tim Rennick. That is when I realised how high George could get with his falsetto. We had a competition to see who could get the highest, but I can’t remember who won.”

Billy Kinsley also saw the animosity between the Beatles: “George Harrison had a big bar of Cadbury’s Fruit and Nut and he gave pieces to me, Pete Clarke and Derek Taylor. Paul McCartney walked in and saw us all eating chocolate and wanted some. George, very deliberately, put the last piece in his mouth. (Laughs) It’s childish, and I’ve done things like that in the Merseybeats, but Paul was really annoyed that George didn’t give him his last piece of Fruit and Nut. (Laughs)”

The film, Wonderwall, was a psychedelic love story starring Jane Birkin. Its director was Joe Massot: “I asked George at the opening of the Beatles’ boutique if he would like to do the music for Wonderwall. I told him that it was a silent film and his music would provide the emotion for the characters. Quincy Jones told me that it was the greatest soundtrack he had heard but the movie was too far out for some audiences. It did well in London though.”

Donovan: “George introduced me to Indian music and he gave me a tambura, and it is still making music. I put it on ‘Hurdy Gurdy Man’ and it is the drone in between the verses. George did write a verse for that song, but because of the guitar solo, we didn’t include it on the record. I include it in my concerts now. Yeah, George.”

Billy Bob Thornton: “I like George Harrison’s songs, and ‘Here Comes The Sun’ is one of my favourite Beatles songs. It’s a fantastic song. George seized his chance on Abbey Road: ‘Quick, while the others aren’t looking!’”

Richie Havens: “I thought ‘Here Comes The Sun’ was the happiest, simplest, clearest wishing well for the world of all the songs that they had ever done. It is a message for all of us. The sun is going to come up tomorrow, no matter what. You’ve got to be prepared, it’s going to be all right. Things are not as hard as you’re making it. That was the message of the time that needed to be heard. I said that to George and he said, ‘It is a song about finding the light, the real light, the sun.’”

Donovan: “All psychedelia points to one thing and one thing only: there is a spiritual path that the world needs and it was the singers and painters and dancers and filmmakers and poets that presented this path to the world. Now the doors of perception are open and George pointed the way by singing, ‘Here comes the sun, And I say, It’s all right.’”

Louise Harrison: “George wasn’t particularly made up that Frank Sinatra had recorded ‘Something’. Once I was staying with him at the Plaza in New York and he spent the night hiding from Frank’s guys who were after him. Sinatra wanted him to write a whole album for him and he felt that these weren’t the sort of people you said no to.”

John York of the Byrds: “The power struggle helped George grow as an artist in a strange sense so that when he put out All Things Must Pass, everyone went ‘Wow’, because he had been held down.”

Alan White, whose drumming was featured on All Things Must Pass: “I don’t agree that George had copied the Chiffons’ ‘He’s So Fine’ for ‘My Sweet Lord’. That song changed so much in the studio and to me, it was and always will be legitimate. George was the sweetest guy in the world. A really, really great guy and he wouldn’t harm anyone or anything. The vibe and the atmosphere when we recorded ‘My Sweet Lord’ were incredible. We played music all day every day for three weeks and it was a great group of people.”

Joe Brown’s late wife, Vicki, was a fine singer in her own right, having an uncredited No.1 with J J Barrie on ‘No Charge’. Vicki Brown: “George lived five minutes away from us and when he was doing the soundtrack for Shanghai Surprise, he asked me to help to demo a song for Madonna. He had worked out some great harmonies and we did the duet. Two weeks later, the producers wanted Whitney Houston to do it instead, but he said, ‘I think you should do it.’ We sang it on the soundtrack but they didn’t release it as a single as the film flopped.”

Klaus Voormann recalled going to see George in 2001: “George Harrison was in Austria and he was in bad shape. It was a lovely day and the sun was shining and we were sitting outside. Olivia explained about his treatment and it took him ages to come down because he was so weak. He couldn’t get up easily and getting shaved and dressed was agony for him. He wore a gardening hat and he took it off and he had no hair, but he was happy. He was laughing. His concern was to make me feel good. It was the opposite of what I expected, that is, for me to try and make him feel good. He said, ‘If I die, that’s okay, and if I live on, that’s okay too. My body in not important, that is just my shell. My spirit will stay with you always.’ It was lovely that he felt like that and he wasn’t scared. He was still fighting for his life but he knew he was going somewhere better. If everybody could feel that way, it would be great.”

‘Goodnight, George’ at the end of Fate’s Right Hand by the singer/ songwriter Rodney Crowell is a reference to George Harrison. “We were rehearsing the song ‘This Too Will Pass’ and I got a phone call from my daughter Hannah who lives in Los Angeles and is an incredible Beatles fan. She was in tears because George had died. I went back and told Pat Buchanan and Michael Rhodes who were on the session with me and as we were recording the play-out at the end, I just said, ‘Goodnight, George’. It was just an emotional thing. We went into the control room and Pat had tears down his face and he said, ‘Do you realise how similar this song is to All Things Must Pass?’ I hadn’t thought about it until that moment, but he’s right. We left ‘Goodnight, George’ on the song and decided to end the record that way.”

Klaus Voormann remembered his final meeting with George Harrison: “That last day I met him, he had had a video of himself when he went to the dentist to have a tooth out and he was singing, ‘How does it feel to be one of the beautiful people?’”

Imagine This - Growing Up with My Brother John Lennon

In 2007, Julia Baird published a book called Imagine This - Growing up with my brother John Lennon, describing her childhood and her memories of John.  She also spoke with the BBFC's David Bedford about her book, and her memories of her family.

Interview and editorial comments by David Bedford



Tell me about your mother, Julia

"Wonderful - what would you expect me to say? I remember her going everyday to the hospital to see Jackie, who had been born premature. I wonder how much the stress of not seeing John affected her. I've not put it in the book because it's a medical question, but she'd had John, she'd had a baby taken away, and then me, and then with all the problems of arguing with Mimi and Pop and then moving house; Pop died, my father had to find a house, and physically doing the move - I remember carrying things out of the house, and my father carrying everything. They moved all the furniture out and the baby was due at Christmas and maybe it was not a surprise that she was born two months early.

"Mum was a great wordsmith extraordinaire. She would have you rolling in the aisles about anything: she was very clever. She's had to be dismissed by so many writers as a nincompoop who gave her children away so how can you then say she was a highly intelligent, articulate woman who was witty, dry, funny, everything. How can you then say she gave her children away?"



This is why it has never seemed consistent for me. The affection that the other lads in the Quarry Men had for her, and have been happy to retell isn't consistent with Aunt Mimi's stories. Why is that?"She lived long after John had died. Mimi reinvented herself, but after John had died she could say anything she liked, without anyone to contradict her. She sideswiped Jackie and I for years."

How did you first hear about Victoria/Ingrid"That was Bill Smithies from the Liverpool Echo, the features editor then. He was trying to set the story straight, and within a short time he mentioned about the four children, and I just looked at him, and straight away he said, "you don't know, do you?" I said "No, what are you talking about, are you saying there are four of us?" He said, "Julia, your mother had four children, and I can see you don't know. I'm going." He was a lovely man, and gave me his number to ring him when I was ready to talk. I went straight out of the house, grabbed the little fella and had to do three visits to Nanny in Rock Ferry. I said, "Nanny, I'm going to come again and again until you tell me the truth. I've been told by a complete stranger."

You met Ingrid, didn't you?"It was so strange when she turned up. Stan (Julia's cousin) and I were at Mendips putting up the Blue Heritage Plaque. It was a really nice day and he turned round and quietly spoke - we were concerned he was going to fall off the ladder - "I think I can see Ingrid". "What?", I said. "Ingrid, she's over there". We got down the ladder and there she was walking up the road with a friend. The first thing I did was look at her. John and I look alike, my sister and I look alike - some people even think we're twins - so the genes are really strong. Green or brown eyes: my father and mother had brown eyes - I don't know about Alf - and we're a redheaded family, and we also look like John. I thoroughly and absolutely expected Ingrid to look like me John and Jackie, but she looks nothing like us. She has pale blue eyes and fair hair, so I was scrutinising her right off, and I was in a state of shock: she doesn't look like me, she doesn't look like John. You build up a mental image, because of the "halfness" of John and Jackie and I, and yet we look the same, the strong gene. Obviously, Ingrid must favour her father more. Our father was very dark, so different."

John started school in November 1945 at Mosspits on Woolton Road. Julia took a job at a café near the school, working around school times, so she could take John to school and pick him up again. A regular visitor to this café was John Albert Dykins. He was a salesman who lived at home with his family. They began a love affair which was to last. The Stanley family would not accept this relationship, and would have nothing to do with John Dykins. Julia was open with him and had told him about her son John and her baby Victoria who had been adopted. This only attracted him more - he was her knight in shining armour!

Julia called John Dykins "Bobby" - there could only be one John in her life. It was her term of affection, and for a while, their daughter Julia thought that he was actually called Bobby - short for Robert. Bobby found a flat in Gateacre, a small place, but at least it was home. It was a big house, of which they only had a small part. There was a small kitchen, bathroom, living room and one small bedroom. Julia, Bobby and John moved in.

Julia, tell me about John's childhood"One of my older cousins says, "John was as happy as the day is long". Rubbish! John once called himself a "social and psychological cripple" because he was torn away from his mother to live with Mimi. John's own words. When I heard that I was in tears. This family! Where are these people mentally? They're in cloud cuckoo land. All that too-ing and fro-ing. It is unimaginable to these people because it didn't happen to them so it must have been ok. You can't go though all that and not be affected. All those things that he wasn't supposed to know or notice. Kids don't talk to the oppressor. I know that from my own history and children I have worked with because if you tell the oppressor they oppress you even more. You tell anybody that's not close.

"My father managed to find this flat in Gateacre, probably on Gateacre Brow that were always to rent, and when my mother died my father was the manager of the Gateacre Hall Hotel and they had been talking about moving us in there, and John would have come with us. There was a huge space, because we used to eat where he was working, and there was a big conversation because he now had the managership of this place so we could move in and we would have all lived there."



The steps Mimi took to get John are almost beyond belief. What did she do?"She saw a window of opportunity, and if she'd have let that go, there wouldn't be another chance. She was like a bulldog, wasn't she? Like a mastiff or a rottweiler? The first time she came round my father put her out. The second time she came with a social worker who said, "No, it was fine." She then took the director of Public Services - as far as I know - and brought Pop. She was determined. He agreed with Pop and Mimi that John should go and live with George and Mimi at Mendips.

"My 'family' say that she loved 'Judy' (Julia Lennon's family nickname). Did she? I don't call that love. I call that jealousy, spite, and opportunism. I don't call that love, when you take them at their weakest point. Talk about kicking a dog when it's down!"

Mimi changed John's school to Dovedale from Mosspits, and took over running his life, or should that be ruining his life?

It was obvious that Julia and Bobby needed a bigger place, where John would have his own bedroom. Julia and Bobby moved back with Pop at Newcastle Road, where there was enough room for John to have his own room. That would solve the problem, so Julia went to Mimi to get John back. Mimi turned her away at the door.

How would you describe Mimi?"Hypocrite. To the core, flawed. Unbelievable what she put my mum through. I mention in the book that she had set her heart on having John, no matter what the price to pay, no matter what my mother thought, she was just swatted away. This was her opportunity to have a child."

The big surprise was that her marriage to George Smith was not consummated."I've not long found out. We knew she hadn't had a child but never knew this."

And then Michael Fishwick turned up (Michael had been a lodger at Mendips). Tell me about him and his story."The hypocrisy is too big to take on board, and I've known now for 2 years and can still go into shock. I had it in my head that Mimi had had an affair after what Nanny had suggested. She thought it was 'George' and 'New Zealand', but that's all I had. There is an expression that "all the world loves a lover." She'd picked up that something was going on and only started to tell me about it in her last 18 months - 1996/7. She knew that Mimi had talked about New Zealand - I don't know how she knew all this, as I never questioned Nanny: you didn't question her. You asked questions: conversations happened and I used to try to move it in one direction, but she often wasn't having that, because she wasn't really talking to me, she was talking to the sky, I was just the one that triggered it. Not just me, but I was the one that was interested and I knew this was it, so when she said something was going on; Mary was going to New Zealand with George. The actual facts were wrong but the feelings were right.

"When I was getting in touch with Michael Fishwick, it was to find out: what did he know, did he see anything? At that time, the flats hadn't been built (at the end of Menlove Avenue), the other semis hadn't been added on, and there were about 12 houses and the tip. There was wasteland next to Mendips - and then this bungalow appeared belonging to one of George Smith's family - another Smith who Mimi didn't get on with - surprise, surprise!

"So it can't be there, and I looked next door and there was Mr. and Mrs. Caplan. She didn't like Mrs. Caplan, but Mimi was not a woman's woman, she was a man's woman. She didn't like the female race! I thought it must have been Louis Caplan, who was once Lord Mayor of Liverpool, but everything is possible. You see, Mimi didn't go out, she never went anywhere, so it had to be close to home because you could go round, any day or evening and she was there. The only place she went was to Woolton village to get the cat some fish. Where was she? It had to be within walking distance. I might have put it the other side of Calderstones Park, maybe.

"He didn't have to tell me anything; it was his decision. I tracked him down. I wanted to talk to him because we were just visitors to Mendips but if anyone could unlock the secrets, he could. It would have to be one of the students who were there through thick and thin. That's why I set out to contact him, never thinking that it would be him. Never in a million years would it have entered my head that it was him.

"When I spoke to Michael Fishwick, I just said, "Who was Mimi's boyfriend?" I didn't say did she have one. If he'd have said to me, "good grief, Mimi didn't have a boyfriend, what are you talking about?" I would have thought, "Nanny was wrong on that one". She wasn't wrong on much: she'd picked up some feelings but that was all. I would have left it.

"He said, "What made you think Mimi had a boyfriend?"

"I knew right away that Nanny was right, as it wasn't a denial. We met the very next week. He must have made a decision during that week. Maybe this was to size me up first, I don't know. Within 5 minutes I knew it was him. He had made that decision to tell me because I would never have guessed because of the age difference and knowing what Mimi was like. It was his decision, and I don't know why he made that decision. I am very grateful to him for it.

"They began an affair that started in 1956. Michael had lived at Mendips since September 1951 and finally left in 1960. He had originally left, but came back after George had died in 1955. Mimi at this point was 50 years of age, and Michael was 24. And, it turns out, Mimi was a virgin: her marriage was never consummated. At the Christmas of 1956, Mimi had taken John to Scotland to see her sister's family. Michael telephoned to say that he was ill, and was staying at Mendips. Mimi left Scotland early without John and went straight back to Mendips to be with Michael. Michael was offered the chance to go to New Zealand on a project and he and Mimi considered leaving Liverpool and moving to New Zealand with him to get married. Michael was worried about "Living in Sin" in Mendips with John in the next room. How ironic is that? How hypocritical!

"However, the funding for the trip fell through, and Michael had to stay here. He was soon called up for national service and in 1960 the relationship was at an end, and Michael married another girl."

It has helped me to understand Mimi more. Tell me about "The House of Correction.""Mimi called Mendips, 'The House of Correction' and when John was going back there he said, "I've got to go back to the House of Correction" and we were the 'House of Sin'. Society has changed a lot since then, but the hypocrisy hasn't.

She destroyed my mum's life, and the rest of our family, just to get the child that she never had. Here was a ready-made child. I think she was an opportunist. I don't think by any means that she had planned it, but as it became more obvious, it was an opportunity not to be missed. Leila, my cousin told me that when they (John's mum Julia and Bobby Dykins) had moved back to Penny Lane - Newcastle Road - that Julia went to Mimi to ask to take John home where he would have had his own bedroom, Mimi flung John behind her and said to my mother, "Get Away" - it's a lot stronger than I put in the book - "Get out of here, you're not having him, you're not fit to have him, get out of my house". Leila was at the back of the room and witnessed it all.

When I think of Mendips, I always think of it as an unhappy house, and people go round there on the tour and say, "Isn't this wonderful, isn't this lovely", but it's not a happy house. After Ernest died - the owner of Mendips who was a lovely man - Cynthia said, "Do you want it?" I said, "No Cynthia, what are you suggesting?" "I'll put it to Julian, do you and Jackie want the house?" I said, "Cyn, thank you, but no thank you." Cynthia knows what type of house it was, and I know before I knew the whole story that John was living in that house as a child because he had to live there, not by choice or that my mother had given him away. It was the house where my mother was turned away from."

Your mum must have been distraught?"We now know she had post-natal depression. Mimi couldn't have children for whatever reason, but one thing I've tried not to do in the book is surmise anything. To say I think this, I think that. We always knew that there was something wrong inside Mimi all her life; I've never tried to write about it before because I couldn't prove it. Once I knew about the student, then everything fell into place. She ruined my mother's life."

When I was with May Pang recently, she said that she had a sense that John had been told that Julia was dead, when clearly she was living close by. Do you know anything about that?"I don't know that, but it's entirely possible. I know for a fact that Mimi said to John that she didn't know where his mum was, because Nanny told me this and also John told me in his conversations. He said, "I didn't know where you were, I was told that mummy had gone away with Bobby, and Mimi didn't know where." At the same time, she told my mother, "You keep away, he is really unhappy when he sees you, and he has to settle into his new life.

"Mimi lived for 11 years after John and she reinvented herself. She said, "I knew I wanted John from the moment I first saw him." We all like our sister's children, but she made all that up! Give her another 50 years and she'd have claimed she had John herself!

"There had always been an atmosphere between Mimi and me that never ever went away. Though, at the end of her life, it was me that she sent for."

I was surprised by that. Why did she do it? "I don't know, but I never didn't go. When she came out of hospital after the operation that she should never have had, but Mimi wasn't in good health. I don't know how she had that operation; she was told that someone from the family had to be there so she phoned me. Why me? I think already Mimi had realised that she had to talk to me, and I am surmising here because she never said anything.

Mimi died in December 1991. Her last words were, "I'm terrified of dying, I've been so wicked". Did she want to apologise and heal the wounds?"I wish she had have done years ago because I would have said to her, "It's alright Mimi, I don't think you're going to be judged anywhere and I'm not going to judge you. Be happy. It's totally forgiven." Do I have the right to forgive on behalf of my mother? Maybe I do. I would have told her, "It's alright, no one is going to judge you, be happy, and be peaceful now." I would have said it to her without a shadow of a doubt, but she didn't give me the opportunity to, and we were too frightened of her, even at this stage, to say anything. She was an absolute figure of fear to me."

What happened after your mum was killed?"It was nothing short of child abuse. The family fobbed me off and they're annoyed that I've done this book. "That's how it was in those days". That is their justification! What about me and Jackie? Are we not allowed to have an opinion? It's not how it was?"

How long were they planning to keep your mum's death a secret?"Forever? We came back to Liverpool, the first week in September. My mother died on 15th July, and we were sent away on the 16th July, so we were away for about 8 weeks, and even when we came back they still didn't tell us! Were we not to ever mention our mother again? They were mad if they thought that we were never going to talk about her. They were mad, empty-headed nitwits."

It's like there is a conspiracy between the whole family: you're not part of the family."We heard that forever. If they were alive we'd still be hearing it now."

It must have affected you and Jackie and still does for your whole life?"It still affects us. They didn't care, that is the truth. It was a duty to look after us. There was talk of an orphanage but my father went ballistic. My father kept us the whole time. I don't know what the agreement was, but he kept the family, as he should have done, but it wasn't a duty, he paid for everything and more for us. He bought the beds, the washing machine, and the school shoes: he bought everything. He was never a father who decided not to pay. There was money going into the house all the time for us."

You were made wards of court, weren't you?"We knew nothing about this. When I was 21, I just got this letter, which had been opened, and I said, "What's this"? I was told to go down to this place in Water Street (Liverpool City Centre) and they'll explain it to you. So I went down and I said, "What's this?" My mother apparently had an insurance policy that was bought from the man at the door, and it was worth £300 when she died, to be paid out when we were 21, split between her 3 children. John got £100 when he was 21."

(This must have been the money that John and Paul used to go to Paris. They left Liverpool in October 1961, just as John was reaching his 21st Birthday. It was always said that it was a present from an aunt, but it was from his mum. I wonder if he was told?)"When I was 21, I went and I got £200, and when Jackie went it was about £320, because of the interest that had built up. I just said, "What is this about the ward of court, I don't know anything about this." I was told, "Sign this, and you're not a ward of court any more." But I said, "What does it mean?" "It means that you're uncle and aunt became your guardians." But my father was keeping us. We knew nothing about it."

It's something else from your childhood that's been taken away from you?"Exactly. When we had our school reports, my uncle always signed them as guardian. My father could have done that. Why did they do that? We were raging inside but you daren't ask any questions."

Norman and Harrie became their guardians. Their father, Bobby, was not married to Julia, and so had little or no rights. Some books have portrayed him as a drunk, an incompetent father incapable of looking after his daughters. This was not true. He was not allowed to look after his daughters, and legally could do nothing about it. He was allowed to visit them once or twice a week. Bobby couldn't cope with living in Springwood, and so he found a new house near Woolton Woods, close to the cottage. Unbeknown to Harrie and Mimi, Julia and Jackie found the house and would go to see their father for quick visits in secret.

I really get a sense of feeling so bad for your father. How did he cope?"He was weak in the opposition of the family, caught in the teeth of the tiger. There was no respect for his feelings. Because they weren't married, he had no rights. They didn't have the right to do what they did, but they did it. They were like bulldozers. We lost our mother, and they took us away from our father and our grandmother because she was too "common" to be allowed to visit."

In the summer of 1959, Julia and Jackie were told they could go and spend a week with their father, whose mother had come to live with him too. "Nana" was able to take care of them when their dad had to go to work. This one-week became two weeks and then the whole of the summer holiday. Bobby had a new job in the New Bears Paw pub in town, and arranged a part-time job for John there with him. It was all going well, when, in the summer of 1960, Nana was ill, and it became clear that she couldn't continue to look after the girls, and they moved back in with their Aunt Harrie.

In December 1965, further tragedy struck when their father, Bobby, was killed in a car crash at the bottom of Penny Lane. John didn't know for months: he didn't need to be told, as it was nothing to do with "the family".

John by now was a Beatle and the contact between him and his 2 sisters became more rare, and they didn't hear from him. They made contact again in the 1970s, and had many conversations. Julia would talk to John about their mum and they would laugh and cry. John said that, "You had her, I didn't", a lyric reflected in his song "Mother": "Mother, you had me, but I never had you". He became nostalgic, and asked Julia to send over lots of his old things over to America. Julia sent lots of photos, his school tie from Quarry Bank, and the clock that was in the living room at Mendips, with his uncle's name on it, "George Toogood Smith".

John talked of wanting to come home to Liverpool to see everyone, and surprised Nanny by ringing her up on her birthday and told her how he planned to come to Liverpool in the New Year. He never did, because as we know, he was murdered in December 1980.

John bought a 4-bedroom house in Gateacre Park Drive, which was intended for his two half-sisters, Julia and Jackie. John's Aunt Harriet and Uncle Norman had assumed the responsibility for John's half-sisters after their mother Julia had been killed, and it was they who moved in to live there. After John's death and Harriet died, with it being still in John's name, Yoko planned to evict them. However, following a protest, she allowed Norman to stay. The house according to John's wishes should have been passed on to Julia and Jackie, John's sisters. This house became an important place to Julia and Jackie - this was John's gift for them. In a letter, John wrote, "I always thought of the house he's in (Norman) as my contribution towards looking after Julia and Jackie. I would prefer the girls to use it."

After some letters and phone calls between Julia Baird and Yoko, it became clear that the house was not going to be given to the girls, though Yoko did offer them money if they needed some. That was not the issue: it wasn't about money.

The house was handed over to the Salvation Army on 2nd November 1993 as a gift from Yoko. After being empty for a number of years, the Salvation Army has now used it as a retirement home for their officers.

This house in Gateacre Park Drive became very important to you, didn't it?"That house is a symbol of John's love and care for Jackie and me, and it was taken away from us. It's like it didn't finish, and it will never finish. When Norman died after being knocked down by a car in October 1991 - a horrible reoccurring theme with car accidents - his son David was asked to clear the house within weeks. He emptied it in a weekend. It was special to us. Yoko then donated it to the Salvation Army, so it was never ours.

"Mimi then found out that the house John had bought for her in Poole, Dorset, was not hers, but also owned by Apple. Mimi became ill, and Yoko paid for private nursing care for Mimi. At the funeral, Cynthia was there with Yoko and Sean in attendance also: not Julian. Cynthia spoke to Yoko about Mimi's house, as apparently John had intended for it to be used as a family retreat too, as well as being Mimi's home. However, the house had already been sold."

I now say, "Forget what you've heard about Mimi from those early books, like Hunter Davies' authorised Beatles biography." People keep repeating untruths, don't they?"Why didn't he come and see me? I was an adult and I could have told him that Springwood (where Julia and her family lived) was where it all happened. Why wasn't that in?"

All these books with myths and stories must hurt you?"I've been quoted in books as contributing when I haven't given interviews, like Goldman's book! I could have sued, but I don't let it bother me because I know its rubbish. That's why I say at the beginning of my book that these so called "experts" are someone who knew someone who knew someone else or maybe they didn't, so here's the truth. I don't read these books, but I do read newspaper articles. This was one of the reasons I started this book. I challenged Philip Norman over what he had written in an article when he contacted me and after initially denying it he rang back and to his credit apologised. That article left me searing and it was just a bunch of rubbish but written by the well-respected author Phillip Norman, so people accept it. He has now said that he accepts he was wrong and now knows the truth and will correct this in his book.

"So I said, I'm going to do this; I'm going to write this book. This was one of the reasons - there were many reasons - that I decided to write this book."

It must be so strange, directly or indirectly, to have people writing about you and your family constantly?"All the time. When the "family" don't gainsay it, that's almost a taciturn acknowledgement that it is true. When I speak to my cousin Leila she says, "You know it's not true.

"That is not good enough. When we go, it will become the truth."

Your mum has been described as this happy go lucky girl who gave John away and it didn't matter.

"That's why I've done this book, to put my mother back where she belongs. One of my cousins said that its an assassination of Mimi, but believe me it could have been a lot worse. I've done the bare minimum because there is enough in there."

It could have been a tabloid-style sensationalist book, couldn't it?"It was never my intention to do that, even though there was enough scandal to do that. It's a serious book about really serious matters. People have written these accounts without speaking to me or to Jackie and then these researchers just look at the research done before and refer to that without doing their own investigation. As an academic I know that won't do. Go back to source. You wouldn't get away with it in school. I've been to see the house where my mother was born, the plot at 8, Head Street - now demolished. I've seen them all with Stan, and I've been to see the farm in North Wales.

"My mother's house has been torn down, and I don't know if I'm pleased about that because I'd have had to go and buy it and live in it as a tangible association with her."

You mention about your mother's grave. "I've been looking to do this for some time, and it turned out that my Uncle Norman had paid about 13 shillings for the plot. I don't know where the money came from or whether they clubbed together or how it happened, but he paid for it. Therefore, my mother's plot belonged to him. It's just that they didn't care, and what did it matter to us? After all, she wasn't there and we weren't at the funeral and were never told where she was buried. So that passed, when Norman died, to my cousin David. He has been really great in going through the paperwork and probate so very soon we can look at a proper headstone. He's now phoned me to say that it is all sorted and I can go ahead. It's going to be for us, and not the public, and I hope it never will be."

How do you deal with it?"The last two and half years have been consumed with the book, and it has been a cathartic exercise for me. I will be promoting the book for the near future to get the truth out there. After that, I don't know. We still don't have an American publisher, and I don't know why, it is very strange.

I'm thinking of putting my book into poems. This is about the tenth draft, and when I started writing it - Hodder (the publisher) might not be interested, I don't know - but when I first wrote it, because it was an affair of the heart, I was researching and making notes and when I started writing it, it came out like modern poetry. I've done one about John. My mother wanted John to know that he was the one and only John, and why she called my father Bobby."

Julia Baird is an extraordinary woman who has faced unbelievable torture from a family in the name of morality. Through Mimi, Julia and Jackie were disowned, dismissed. They were not considered part of the family. Over 50 years later, she has found out that Mimi, the moral voice of the Stanley family who destroyed Julia Lennon's life, who forcibly took John away from his mother out of some misplaced moral crusade, was herself having an affair with a student half her age in her House of Correction! Hypocrisy at its worst!

What makes it worse still is that her life has been constantly paraded in the public eye for the last 40 years, and totally misrepresented. Her precious mother who was not alive to defend herself has been reviled and ridiculed for too long. I for one was too prepared to believe what I had read from so-called reliable sources, for which I feel ashamed.

I have had the privilege of meeting many people during the research for my book, but I have never felt such anger as I felt, and still feel, after hearing this story. The way the lives of Julia Lennon and Bobby Dykins, Julia and Jackie and John have been destroyed by an uncaring family is heart breaking and has to stop. The truth has to be told, now.

Now I know why John had so many demons, and I understand the man more than ever before. Julia Lennon was an inspiration to her son and daughters, and should now be given the credit for what she was able to achieve, in spite of a conspiracy by Mimi and her family to tear the family apart.

© Copyright David Bedford - taken from his book Liddypool, Birthplace of The Beatles

Interview with Lynn Varcoe

Lynne Varcoe was the auxiliary nurse who cared for John Lennon's Aunt Mimi in her final years between 1991-1992. Ernie Sutton of the British Beatles Fan Club spoke to her about her time caring for Mimi.

How did you come to care for John Lennon's Aunt Mimi?
"My mother was the owner of the Varcoe Nursing Agency, located in Poole. She was approached by a representative of Yoko Ono to supply auxiliary nurses during the day to care for Mimi Smith. During the night, caregivers from the Cheshire Trust watched Mimi. I had worked for my mother on and off over the years. At that time, I was working as a mathematics teacher and I helped care for Mimi as a second income."

When did you realise she was the aunt who raised John Lennon?
"As soon as my mother received the 'phone call to assist with Mimi's care it was made clear to us who she was. I think we always knew that John Lennon's Aunt lived in Poole; we just did not where exactly."

How long did you look after Mimi?
"I looked after Mimi on and off for two years during 1991 and 1992. "

How did you feel when you realised who Mimi was?
"I did not start as a huge Beatles fan (not having been born until 1963). However, one of my closest friends at Grammar School loved all things Beatle so I was well educated! When I realized who Mimi was, it was interesting to hear her talk about John and the other Beatles; also to see the memorabilia that she had in her house. She had a picture that was painted by John (which she later gave to her doctor), a Radio Caroline bell that had been presented to the Beatles, a plaque that John had made for his Uncle that read "the guitar is all right as a hobby, John, but you'll never make a living at it", as well as many photographs and cards, etc."

What were her memories of George (her husband?)
"Mimi really did not talk about George. When asked she always changed the subject."

When she spoke about John, how do you think she felt (proud?)- or did it vary .
"When Mimi spoke about John she was occasionally proud but more often than not, she found fault! She was very upset at John when he returned his MBE. John gave it to Mimi after he got it and she thought of it as hers. She said that he came to see her one day and asked to borrow it. Then she heard on the news that he had returned it and she was very upset. She also said many times that John was not raised to speak with a Liverpudlian accent and that he 'put it on' so that he would 'sound like the other boys'. (I don't know if that was true or not!!). She was very upset that John had gone to live in America (understandably under the circumstances) - and she did not speak fondly of Yoko. I think she felt that if John had not met Yoko he would have stayed in England and would still be alive."

Did she speak to John while she was in your care?
"John, of course, was already dead when I cared for Mimi. However, she did have Paul's phone number and rang him occasionally."

Did she ever talk about Yoko & Sean, and what did she felt about them?
"I do not recall Mimi mentioning Sean except in passing. As I said before, she was not fond of Yoko. She did not like being beholden to her for her. Yoko owned her house and paid for all Mimi's needs. Mimi was a very strong person and liked to be in charge. Actually, she always referred to her as that 'Yoko Poko' person. However, Mimi's bark was always worse than her bite and I have a feeling that she may not have truly had as much animosity as she pretended."

What were her thoughts on the other Beatles?
"Mimi seemed to be very fond of the other Beatles. She was still in touch with them from time to time. She talked about when she went on tour with them. She also talked about how they used to come and see her."

Who came to visit Mimi in her last years and where were they spent?
"Yoko would visit Mimi when she was in England. The only other family member that I remember coming down was Jackie. She would visit Mimi on occasional weekends. She would spend time with Mimi and walk on the beach. Mimi, I think, would give her money for her fare."

Why do you think Julia Baird got her facts wrong in her books regarding her visiting Mimi during these final years?
"I do not know if Julia was there at any point during Mimi's last year (if she was, it was not often). However, she was definitely not there when Mimi died. Mimi never mentioned being afraid of anything. Also, Mimi's last words were actually 'Hello, John'. I never told Yoko that - being older and wiser now - I wish that I had! (and if you have any way of doing so, I feel that she should know - I know I would like to)"

Yoko came to the funeral as I recall, did you ever get the chance to meet her or Sean and if so how did they come across to you?
"Yoko and Sean were at the funeral and so was Cynthia. I remember Cynthia being very upset and crying throughout. During the funeral (a cremation), they played the music of Imagine. I still can't hear that song without thinking of Mimi and the funeral. There were flower arrangements sent from Paul, Ringo, and George. After the funeral, we all went to lunch at the Harbour Lights Hotel in Sandbanks. Yoko was very gracious and thanked all the people that helped care for Mimi. She thanked me for being there when Mimi died. Sean was also very polite and attentive to his mother."

Did Cynthia or Julian ever get in touch with Mimi as far as you know during this period and if so how did Mimi feel about it?
"I do not remember Cynthia or Julian getting in touch with Mimi during this period. Mimi always spoke well of Cynthia."

What were Mimi's interests in these last years?
"Mimi's main interests were the squirrels and the seagulls. She fed them both and watched them from her window. My mother (with permission) found Mimi a cat for company during the last year. He was a big black animal called Thomas and was good company for her - he came from a rescue shelter. Mimi was very fond of cats - I later found out that she had kept cats in Liverpool. After she died, I found Thomas a new home."

What happened to you after Mimi's passing?
"After Mimi's passing I decided that I would like to become a 'real' nurse. I got a degree in nursing, and have worked as a nurse ever since. Yoko gave some items to my mother and myself that had belonged to her (the plaque, the Radio Caroline Bell, some photographs, a duvet that was John's as a child). I sold these at Auction (Sothebys) and they paid for my nursing education. (I still have the duvet!)"

What are you doing now?
"I moved the USA in the 1990s. I now work for a Hospice, taking care of terminally ill patients in Western West Virginia and Southern Ohio."

British Beatles Fan Club would like to thank Lynne for speaking to us here.

Paying Tribute to the Beatles: The Mersey Beatles!

Every Thursday night the Cavern rocks when the Mersey Beatles pay tribute to the Beatles. In 2009, Donna Jackson spoke to ‘John’ (Mark), ‘Paul’ (Steven), ‘George’ (Dave), and ‘Ringo’ (Brian), along with their ‘fifth Beatle’ (keyboard player and fellow Scouser, Tony C) to ask about their ten years of keeping the magic alive, and what the future holds for them:

I've heard you play enough to know that you're all great musicians. Why did you decide to be a tribute band? And why the Beatles?

Mark (John): The Beatles would be the only tribute band I would ever do! They are the one band I never tire of listening to.

Steven (Paul): We started out writing our own material. Then we got a covers set together with the idea of making a little money in pubs in Liverpool until we got the elusive record deal we were looking for. As time went by we realised that was a bit of a pipe dream and the covers gigs were coming in and taking a lot of our time. I think we just enjoyed it more when the Beatles songs came along in the set. I know I did anyway. The Beatles have always been my favourite band.

Dave (George): Original music is a tough scene. Playing random songs in the pub wasn't very interesting either so Ste had the idea to form a tribute to our favourite band with the existing members of the band (1999).

Brian (Ringo) : The Beatles were the obvious choice for us being from Liverpool and growing up with the music.


How did you get together?

Ste. Mark and Brian were in the same year in school as me. Dave is my cousin. We were just mates who loved the same music. Still are.

Tony (Keys) I was the DJ and compare at a venue in Liverpool called Coopers Emporium, (now demolished) I asked them to play at a benefit night for my two young nephews who were injured in a fire here in Liverpool back in 1999. The guys agreed to do that for me and the management of the venue were so amazed by their music that they gave the band a residency there and then. It was the start of them becoming well known in Liverpool. The two boys have since made a great recovery so it’s a success story for all parties. I became friends with them but it wasn’t until 2004 that I joined when they were branching out into Pepper and beyond.

Are you all Beatles fans? If so, why/when did you become fans?

Brian: Of course! Late teens as I started to get more interested in music.

Steve: I was a bit younger. I'm a massive Beatles fan but I didn't know much about them until I was 8. On the day John Lennon died, they showed Help! on TV as a tribute ... I think it was the same night ... and I was hooked. I remember asking my brother "What's that one’s name" and questions like that. I thought they were so cool. I remember my initial reaction was that I was proud to be from the same city as these cool fellas and that the songs were great but most vividly that Ringo was the funny one. I was only 8, remember. I was glad to find out that we already had the Please Please Me album in the house. Over the next week or two I wore that out on this old stereogram we used to have. It was a giant piece of furniture that sat under the window in the front room! I remember a couple of weeks later, on Christmas Eve, I couldn’t get to sleep and I could hear people coming home from the pub singing ‘Imagine’. I knew it was important to people. My brother got a "music system" which was really just a turntable with a built in radio and two big speakers and soon we had the Beatles “Red” and “Blue” and Lennon’s Shaved Fish. I just couldn't get enough of the Beatles.

Tony: I became more of a fan once I joined the band. When I started really listening to the songs I was asked to learn, it soon became apparent to me that The Beatles were talented guys and I was so impressed with the arrangements of the songs, the harmonies and the art behind their songwriting. It slowly but surely influenced my life in the last 5 years. I feel I'm a better musician and it has enhanced my reputation from being a local rock keyboard player from the ’90s, to the Wix Wickens of the Mersey Beatles, some may say Billy Preston, but I don’t mind being mentioned in the same breath as them.

Mark: I’ve always been a Beatles fan for as long as I can remember. Me and my cousin used to play Beatles songs at family parties from the age of about 8. It was my cousin who actually got me into them. He was in one of, if not THE first Beatles tribute band in Liverpool, back in 1982.

Dave: My parents owned 4 records between them when I was about 8 or 9. The Best of Simon and Garfunkel, something by Blondie and some rubbish like Now 82 and Beatles for Sale. I wore the needle out on the Simon and Garfunkel LP as I was just learning the guitar and they made the best sound that I'd discovered so far, although in retrospect the Blondie album was full of cool guitar riffs which I failed to appreciate back then. Even to this day there is no acoustic guitar on record that sounds as good as S and G's! Then came Beatles for Sale. That was when I decided to become a 'rock star'! The sound of the album and the Beatles was fresh, loud and exciting! To learn they were from Liverpool made them even more appealing. Then, you know, you ask your parents questions to get a bit of history on them. It was a marvellous discovery! George’s guitar on the album sounded great especially on 'Honey Don't'. Crazy rock and roll solos that were travelling at speed and screaming voices followed by 'I'll follow the sun', smooth and warm, then back to the electricity. This roller-coaster music when you’re young, understanding and 'getting' music is inspiring. Like millions of others I had started my journey into the Beatles abyss and made my mother buy me as many Beatles cassettes as I could beg for.

Are you able to enjoy listening to the Beatles, or is it too much like 'work'?

Ste: We still love to listen to them. We have them on in the van all the time. It's great to hear the songs live but there's nothing like those records. Their voices. I've never heard a tribute band come close. They sing ‘She Loves You’ like their lives depend on it. That's what makes it so exciting and elevates them above their peers. Even before they wrote meaningful or poetic lyrics they still sounded like they had something important to say on those early records. Bob Dylan said they're the only band who could sing ‘Do You Want To Know A Secret’ and not make it sound corny. I really get that. It was raw and unsentimental.

Mark: Listening to the Beatles IS now my work but it’s the best work I can think of doing.

Tony: I still enjoy listening to The Beatles, and I still learn something new each time such as a little piano here or orchestration there. People say "don’t mix work with pleasure" but to me, working with The Beatles music IS a pleasure!!

Dave: After 10 years I still listen to the Beatles in my free time for pleasure and I am still discovering interesting sounds, background harmonies previously unnoticed and also background noises like George swearing on ‘Hey Jude’ or Paul’s seat creaking on ‘Yesterday’ and John and Paul singing different words at the same time and LEAVING IT ON THE TAKE! How great is that! The little hidden treasures that pop out with repeated listening. Obsessive listening!

How did you decide who would play which Beatle and how much do you think that each of you resembles the Beatle that you play?

Mark: I was originally earmarked to play Lennon because of my voice. Also I think we do actually fit the parts we play character-wise. Steven, like Paul, is very diplomatic; Dave is quiet but chips in with his fair share of comments. Brian’s quite laid back, and I can be quite sarcastic I suppose you could say!!

Steve: Yeah, but I look nothing like Paul. We have a joke in the band when we introduce Dave. I say "He's the one who looks more like Paul than I do". It's a little nod to Lennon's line in A Hard Day’s Night. But I have the high notes in my range like Paul and Dave has the ear for the difficult middle harmony that George took. Plus I’m not a good enough guitarist to do George justice. He was so versatile and under-rated. I don’t think any of us would be better at being one of the other Beatles. I think Mark has a certain kind of "John-ness" and we can create the illusion of the look good enough for theatre shows and all that but it was never really about being lookalikes. It was and still is about the music. If you want to come along and squint your eyes and pretend you’re back in the ’60s, that's fine. But we think of ourselves more like the philharmonic giving you Beethoven. The suits and boots and wigs are a bonus but shouldn't distract from what's really important and that's the songs played live with energy and excitement.

Dave: Exactly. I know of men having medical procedures to have teeth like George! And plastic noses glued on to appear to be Ringo! They then come out to play and bore the Cuban heel off your boot!! They’ve got the right guitars and convincing look, but none of the fundamentals. As a proud Scouse Beatle fan I DO expect respect for the originals in bands who do Beatles music. Sometimes I’m self conscious in the wig and boots, but my pride in the Beatles, Liverpool and keeping alive the music and influence of the city is more important than that. I just try to be professional and respectful to the music and to George Harrison the man. Musically we started miles away from being accurate and even now one or two tweaks are still needed!

Steve: We were mates. We were not some fine tuned west end show. So we started with nothing but our instincts on how it was supposed to look and sound.

Dave: It proves the difficulty of the music if after 10 years I’m still trying to perfect the solo to a Hard Day’s Night. We had the energy required to pull it off and we are much closer to the music these days. I feel much better for it because we believe it’s important to play it with heart and respect for how it was written.

You're the Cavern's one and only resident tribute band. How does it feel when you're playing in such an iconic place for Beatles fans? For example, is it inspiring, or do you feel more pressure than at other places?

Steve: It was a real thrill the first night we played there as a Beatles tribute. We had played the back room a few times years before with our original music. But now we were in the arch room in our waist coats and ties singing Beatles songs. I must admit it was very inspiring and in the 250 odd performances since, we've always tried to keep that feeling. (The Mersey Beatles will break The Beatles’ 292 appearance record in October 2010). I remember it was very hot and we were sweating cobs up there but it all seemed to add to the atmosphere. The place was full. We didn't have wigs back then; we grew our own! I remember being very much against wigs at the time but I have to admit I was wrong there; I think it completes the look if you can find a decent one. We never feel pressured there. In fact it’s one of the most relaxed gigs we do. We just let our hair down every Thursday. Well our wigs anyway.

Mark: I find it quite inspiring. Macca was here in1999. I personally don’t feel any more pressure than at other places but it does have its own unique atmosphere, which makes it always enjoyable to perform there.

Brian: Yeah, it would be even more inspiring if it was the original Cavern! But as Mark just said, Paul McCartney did play there and it still embodies the atmosphere of the original so we love it.

Tony: Whenever I play at The Cavern Club, I get a special feeling. I see many people who close their eyes when we are playing, and they’re back in the ’60s, feeling how it would have been. They make the pilgrimage to Liverpool from around the world so it’s nice to help recreate the music for them

What is your favourite song to perform? Why?

Steve: Usually it's one we've just learned together. At the moment I'm loving ‘If I Needed Someone’ for the harmonies. I've always loved singing ‘Sgt Pepper’ and ‘Oh Darling’ and I love the bass line on ‘All My Loving’ and ‘With A Little Help From My Friends’. In fact all of Macca's bass lines are very satisfying to play. They're so melodic. I like slightly lesser played stuff that we play like ‘Kite’. In the early days every single one we added to the set felt great. ‘This Boy’ and ‘If I Fell’ seemed to go down great in those Liverpool clubs we used to play at in the early days. ‘Anna (Go To Him)’ is one of the most requested and ‘In My Life’ too.

Mark: I like ‘Come Together’ and ‘I Am The Walrus’ but I personally lean more towards the ’63-’66 era, and tracks like ‘When I Get Home’, ‘It Won’t Be Long’ and ‘Ticket to Ride’ spring to mind.

Brian: ‘When I Get Home’ is one of my favourites too, because it’s upbeat and lively.

Tony: Last year, we managed to add ‘I Am The Walrus’ to our catalogue. For me it is the most challenging song I have ever had to learn and now when I play it, it gives me a great deal of satisfaction and makes me smile which is important!!

What's the funniest/most embarrassing/most memorable things that have happened while you've been on stage?

Steven: There was the time Brian bravely went on stage feeling very unwell and was sick all over his kit three songs from the end; so near... yet so far.

Mark: Funniest – Dave’s dancing. Embarrassing – Totally forgetting the words. Not often but horrible when it happens. Memorable – playing to a few thousand people at an outdoor gig in Germany. Nothing new for the others but my first taste of it!!

Brian: Too many to mention! Throwing up on stage; falling off the stage. The most memorable was playing Dale Street at the [Mathew Street] Festival.

Tony: Seeing our Ringo (Brian) suddenly disappearing from his drum kit. He had somehow forgotten that there was a 6 foot drop at the back of the stage behind his kit and fell backwards...This happened over in Vasteras in Sweden 4 years ago....Sorry Bri!!

You've added your own touches to some of the songs - for example, the way that they finish. Does it ever feel strange that you're 'messing' with the Beatles' creations?

Steve: Usually we only add a good ending if the record fades out. So we invented live endings for ‘Lucy In the Sky’ and ‘All You Need Is Love.’ We play all the songs in the right key. We do all the harmonies correctly, I think, and we try to get the “feel” right but a record that fades gives you a bit of creative licence. They never covered Chuck Berry or Little Richard or Arthur Alexander exactly the same as the records so I think the odd new ending is acceptable.

Mark: But we are a tribute band and apart from the odd ending we try to sound like The Beatles live.

Steve: I’ve never liked improvised solos, especially on things like ‘I Saw Her Standing There’. Dave plays that so well. If you just play a standard rock scale it can sound more like Status Quo.

Dave: George's was a unique technique. We've had a million arguments about the speed of songs and the dynamics.

Steve: But I just think you “just know” in the moment how loud or fast it should be to fit the mood of any particular night. If you're worrying about timing and all that you can lose the soul. Our mate Jimmy from another Beatles tribute band summed it up for me. He said "The Beatles, live, weren't about perfection it was about nervous energy" and he's totally right. Live music is in the moment. That's the point of it.

Tony: I think it just puts our spin on the endings. No harm done I say!!!

What Beatles album would you give a Beatles novice?

Steve: Well, until they re-master the “Red” and “Blue” album I’d say get something like “A Hard Day’s Night” and the “White Album.” This will give you an idea of the journey you’re undertaking. Make sure you go for the stereo re-mastered CDs. Don’t get the 1987 CDs. The new re-masters sound so much better. (The Beatles were first released on CD in 1987). Listening to the re-mastered “Beatles For Sale” was like I’d never heard it before. So crisp and clear.

What do you think of Beatles Rockband? Have any of you played it?

Steve: I'm not much for computer games. Never was. But I suppose whatever turns you on to The Beatles is a good thing. That was the most useful thing about Oasis.

Brian: I played it non-stop, and completed it! It’s a good way to get the younger generation into the Beatles.

Tony: Rockbad I call it!! I just don’t want to get into it for my own sanity. But if it means that millions of kids are going to start playing REAL instruments, then all is good.

Mark: I think it’s a new, inventive way of introducing a new generation who wouldn’t necessarily go out and buy a CD to the magic of The Beatles. I’ve not actually played it as yet but will probably do so sometime soon.

Julia Baird has said that she thinks that you're the best Beatles tribute band. How did that make you feel?

Brian: Proud!

Steve: It was very kind of Julia to say that. We were standing on that stage and she came on before our encore to thank everyone and when she said that about us I just felt very proud. We all did. It was special. I remember her telling us later that she meant every word and that we could quote her on it whenever we liked. It was an honour to hear that and the quote was on the web site soon after. We never would have used it without her permission and I asked her recently if I could use the quote in this year’s Beatle Week mag. We were thrilled when she said yes. We had spent some time with her in Australia for their inaugural Beatles week in 2004, and she saw us in Sweden and Liverpool before she invited us to play at Telfords [in Chester].

Mark: To have that said about you by anyone would be an honour; but to have it said to you by John Lennon’s sister is unbelievable.

Tony: For Julia to say that shows how hard each member of the band has worked to get the sound as near as can possibly be to the original. Tribute bands can sometimes get negative press, but at the end of the day we only have good intentions.

What's the best/most satisfying thing about being in the band?

Steve: It's the second best job in the world. Writing/recording or having someone record my own songs would be the best job in the word. To me anyway. To play the music of the band you love most for a living's not bad at all. I had many jobs before and, I can tell you, I know how lucky I am to be doing this instead. Plus there are some wonderful perks. The odd cruise here and there. The likes of us visiting Abbey Road to do a show. Can't complain; right?? Last week we were in Surrey to support The Royal Philharmonic orchestra in an open air show for 2000 people. In their second half I got to play Yesterday with them. The whole string section came in on the second verse and it was like ... gulp! It was surreal but such an honour.

Mark: Performing songs by the best band ever in the history of music ... and getting paid to do it as well!! Ha ha!

Brian: It’s fantastic being able to make a living doing what I love and travelling seeing places we wouldn’t otherwise get to see is great!

Tony: The most satisfying thing for me is playing to sell out venues and theatres around the world, especially in Scandinavia, and meeting great people along the way, some of whom worked with The Beatles and telling us stories that will never be brought to press...

Dave: Just playing the music. The assumption is that the songs are 'simple' and easy to learn. The chords are on occasion basic but the gist or essence of the songs is the riffs and melody! George Harrison has many a budding guitarist scratching their heads as we speak. Making it “sound simple.” That’s the trick and they did it so well. There is ''learning'' the guitar, then, ''choosing notes,” and when not to play and how loud to play. To then to be able to deliver them notes on guitar, drums, piano, bass and voice AS WELL is truly astounding. They had raw talent and then mastered it. To have the four of them in one place was like a cosmic alignment that only happens once. Ever. Anywhere.

Last year you celebrated your 10th birthday as a band. How does it feel that you've been together longer than the original Beatles?

Tony: For any band, to celebrate 10 years is amazing. The Mersey Beatles is now a successful band which is growing in stature and it’s a lesson to all up and coming bands, not just tribute bands either, stick with it, work hard and the fruits will arrive!!

Brian: It makes me feel old!

Steve: Yeah, it’s strange!! As a Beatles fan it's been great. We've played at Abbey Road studios and become the Cavern Club’s resident band. We've played on the Reeperbahn in Hamburg; and we played at the only place left standing in Australia that the Beatles actually played at just a year before it was demolished – Centennial Hall in Adelaide. All this was great as a fan. We've played massive shows on big outdoor stages both here and overseas but the little pubs and clubs mean just as much to us (many of which The Beatles played at). It’s been like a pilgrimage for us at times. It shows how great The Beatles were. It took them less time to actually write and record all those great songs and make all those movies and promos and do all those tours and change music forever than it has for us to learn less than half of their output.

Dave: It’s the journey of discovering the Beatles we have experienced as individuals. The four of them made this PERFECT music that has had an impact on the lives of me and so many people.

It sounds like your first ten years as a band has been great! So what’s next?

Ste: In October we pass the Beatles record of 292 performances at The Cavern. It’ll be so special for us because no tribute band has come close to that number and I don’t think any other band will do it for a long, long time. We’re also opening celebrations for what would have been John’s 70th birthday on October 8. On the night before his birthday, we’re doing a very special “John” night at The Hard Day’s Night hotel, here in Liverpool. We’ll perform one set of solo material for the first time and one set of Beatles classics. We did the same for Macca’s birthday last month and we’ll be “remembering George” there in the same way in November. We’ll still be playing at midnight so we’ll be one of the first to play Lennon songs on the special day.

Mark: The Hard Day’s Night is also becoming a special place for us because we do exclusive shows there like the “Happy birthday Paul” or “John’s 70th” night. We get to learn a load of great solo songs especially for each show that you won’t hear us play anywhere else and it keeps us on our toes and it gives our “Cavern Crew”(unofficial and ever growing Mersey Beatles fan club) something different.

Dave: They could have got that hotel so wrong and made it tacky but it’s a really classy hotel. Well done people!!

So do you think you’ll ever get tired of being the Beatles?

Tony: Never!!! Talking of which, I’m off to bed!!

All: Yawn!!

Bri: Well, we’re not the Beatles. We’re a tribute to the Beatles and I love that!

Steve: We don't live it off stage and we don't have a "Beatle script" on stage. Once we're up there anything can happen. We don't put on voices or talk about "Rattle Your Jewellery" and all that. Some do and that's fine for them but it's not our thing. We’re Scouse lads. There would be no point in Scouse lads putting on Scouse accents. We’ll leave all that to the Vegas show bands. I understand why they do it but it’s a bit corny. I never get tired of the music. Whenever we do get some time off it’s nice but that first gig back is great too. Ask me again in another ten years.

Mark: I only get tired of pretending to be a Beatle when my feet hurt because of those bloody shoes I have to wear!

Is there anything else you’d like to add?

Ste: Thanks to John, Paul, George and Ringo ... and Eppy and George Martin.

Dave: I’m proud to congratulate the Beatles for being fab and gear and giving mine and every one’s life journey, wonder, romance, truth, laughter, tragedy, LOVE and great GREAT music. It’s an epic story that lives on through the records, Paul and Ringo, old people, and of course, the Mersey Beatles!

All: Here here, well said ... (handshakes all round)!


For more information on the Mersey Beatles, check out their website: www.themerseybeatles.com